[Mafia] Codename: MAFIA - Round1 Over, Good Wins by Trickery

[Florien]

What I don't get is why you'd ever offer to be nice to "both sides", when the other side is explicitly trying to kill you and us.

That's taking bothsidesing to a whole new level. Most people only do that when they're not in the line of fire.

I trust in your claim, it's probably real, but nonetheless, I can say that that was a completely pointless thing to say.

Anyway, Nebula's positioning as town leader, which uhh

I trust her for now, but I wouldn't stick too closely to what she says because she seems to mostly be throwing around technical terms and hoping we agree. I happen to think my plan is better, even if not couched in technical mafia terms. It also doesn't rely on dubious scumreading methods.

[Kennifer]

Yes Florien, we know you always want to be leaded and distrust anyone who goes against your plan. (Well, many of your characters in murdergames do which is why we butt heads IC in a lot of them.) And it's always hard to tell whether this is you-as-town wanting to put forth what (at least in your opinion) is the best strategy (which is fine when your judgments are correct even if it often throws people who don't have active roles under the bus). Or if it's you-as-scum trying to put forth these plans as "yes listen to me everything I say is correct" while you're cackling behind the scenes as all of the innocents topple like dominoes. It makes you quite dangerous in games like this, especially when it's difficult to know which of these strategies are in play.

Anyway, a few things.

The busdriver claim, for one. If this is true and Geek swapped someone night 1 I'm curious to know who it was. Even if at most it screwed up an investigation result or something since it was a no-kill night (and i'm not sure we even have an investigative role present but since that's sort of a staple of these games it may be more a matter of figuring out who it is. As for how the name could lead to such a role, that's on Ten's creativity when looking at the names and assigning roles. It could do with using art to deceive. Optical illusions and such (or just because "illustrator" and "illusionist" start with the same five letters but that's probably a stretch, lol). But for now Geek hasn't done anything to set off sus-dar yet.

Nebula still seems okay to me, I am curious about what kind of role she has. It could be based on the "Lieutenant" part rather than the "Light" part, come to think of it. Again one of those things that could go either way in terms of alignment but she does seem to be trying to help. I also wonder if the meme vote thing was deeper than it seemed at first glance and designed to gauge people's reactions and see who might jump on a ridiculous bandwagon. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone tried a strategy of "see how people react to a thing" in a Mafia game.

I am also curious as to who Whistle's godchild is, although I can definitely understand if they don't want to come forward. That's one of the things with the "okay everybody roleclaim now because I will know who's lying" strategy; besides the obvious "scum will lie" thing (which is understandable and expected with the strategy) I can see good power roles not wanting to out themselves day 1 and becoming a target for a scum kill. (It's a thing I've been concerned with in murdergames at least, though the time it screwed me over I was third-party and the time it almost did I was just vanilla and it became "target the vanillas because the scum will claim to be one of them". So maybe I'm just salty, lol.)

All that said I'm not sure about Matt's claims either, although his defensiveness also reminds me of times he's been wrongly accused in the past in murdergames. So I'm not sure.

Smily is just confusing me, and he hasn't really posted enough to clarify that confusion. I'm not sure this isn't some sort of strategy though, remembering the last Mafia game where he won as Werewolf (which my dumb ass didn't detect because the only scum my cop role could've detected was Mafia). But he's been sneakier in these games than he seems and despite the "I want to help both sides" claim or whatever it is he's on my radar.

Feelings on Lav have not changed, possibly because their claim seems believable (and they haven't been around much) and MP hasn't been around enough to judge either.

(and yes before anyone says anything I know that Mafia and murdergames aren't exactly the same thing, but since a lot of the recent murdergames have had a heavier focus on social deduction I'm mostly just removing the "well this part of it is the character being roleplayed" lens and looking at how some of the people who have been in both this game and recent murdergames try to strategize and use deduction, which are the elements common to both.)

[Mr. Lee Hammer]

Well, Nebula, when I've gotten nothing but heat on me all throughout this, what else do you expect me to do? Besides, I'm someone who just likes to observe other people and give it time before offering my ideas. I just like to get a feel for what other people are doing. I'm not like Florien who goes in with guns firing. I just like to play more conservatively before I state my theories.

[Whistle]

Whistle: You just silently slid in votes here, when earlier (when you bandwagoned Matthew at the start) you gave an actual reason. Care to explain?
And from now on, y'all should do your best to explain your votes.

In all honesty, I just felt like I had to take some side, and I wasn't sure who of them to trust. Maybe not the best option in retrospect, really... should have just stuck to my guns. 

Right now I still don't know who to vote into oblivion, but as of now there's just been a little bit of a thing going on...

Everyone seems a bit sus, to say the least... just gotta figure out who is most.

[Kennifer]

Oh I definitely agree on providing reasoning for the votes.

In a similar vein my reason for not voting yet is I want to observe people a bit more (conversations, votes, reasoning, etc.) before I do. I'm between a few people as most suspicious right now that I'm watching a bit more carefully (though others' silence could also be suspicious). I don't want to just jump on a bandwagon or vote for someone because I feel like I was pressured to. If not saying "ah yes this person is definitely right about everything" makes me "sus", so be it.

(And no, this isn't a "no vote" or "abstain", this is "watching the people I'm most sus of for a while longer since night's still a ways away rather than bandwagoning".)

[TenOfSwords13]

NOTE: Day will end on July 29th at 8PM BST / 3PM EDT

Current votes:
- Matthew - 1 (Florien)
- Florien - 1 (Matthew)

[NebulaChimera2211]

At least 4 of us have been relatively quiet, and not said much to contribute. Statistically, there's a 10-20% chance that it's none of them, and hence it's likely to be one of them. Be aware.

Bus Driver seems like it can also be an evil role. So there's a chance artsyGeek is telling the truth about being a Bus Driver... because they're an evil one.

Florien: FoS only if Matthew is revealed to be good.
My immediate guess is that most of them either do, or are at least aren't wildly different to an existing role.
I raise possibilities to make sure they've been accounted for. Remember last time when Town got blindsided by a Werewolf?
I think you're right that we should vote someone off today, assuming Whistle is innocent. If she is, then the worst case scenario assuming no elimination is 5v3 MELo (her godchild is attacked, and she sacrifices herself to kill another innocent). If her godchild isn't attacked, or she for some reason doesn't save them, tomorrow is simply 6v3 PMELo instead. Either way, the threat of a D2 miselimination giving the baddies the win remains.
Assuming a miselimination, the scenarios would be 4v3 ELo or 5v3 PELo, so there doesn't seem to be a threat of imminent loss even then.

Smily: Is the PM thing just roleplaying?

Matthew: There's less than three days left, and things have slowed down lately. Now might be a good time to state them.

Whistle: You don't necessarily have to take a side in these things. For example, this Matthew vs Florien thing could be good vs good or evil vs evil. In the case of the latter, be wary if the survivor uses "I got scum eliminated" for towncred.

[SmilyCube112]

At least 4 of us have been relatively quiet, and not said much to contribute. Statistically, there's a 10-20% chance that it's none of them, and hence it's likely to be one of them. Be aware.

Bus Driver seems like it can also be an evil role. So there's a chance artsyGeek is telling the truth about being a Bus Driver... because they're an evil one.

Florien: FoS only if Matthew is revealed to be good.
My immediate guess is that most of them either do, or are at least aren't wildly different to an existing role.
I raise possibilities to make sure they've been accounted for. Remember last time when Town got blindsided by a Werewolf?
I think you're right that we should vote someone off today, assuming Whistle is innocent. If she is, then the worst case scenario assuming no elimination is 5v3 MELo (her godchild is attacked, and she sacrifices herself to kill another innocent). If her godchild isn't attacked, or she for some reason doesn't save them, tomorrow is simply 6v3 PMELo instead. Either way, the threat of a D2 miselimination giving the baddies the win remains.
Assuming a miselimination, the scenarios would be 4v3 ELo or 5v3 PELo, so there doesn't seem to be a threat of imminent loss even then.

Smily: Is the PM thing just roleplaying?

Matthew: There's less than three days left, and things have slowed down lately. Now might be a good time to state them.

Whistle: You don't necessarily have to take a side in these things. For example, this Matthew vs Florien thing could be good vs good or evil vs evil. In the case of the latter, be wary if the survivor uses "I got scum eliminated" for towncred.

Yes. Might've gotten a bit too into roleplaying recently, which I now realise is the cause for the confusion. Sorry if that caused problems.

[Mr. Lee Hammer]

The only thing I got right now is why Florien is trying to push me to be killed. Could be just the play-style. But you can never tell. Watch 'em closely, I say. Whistle is a little off-putting with the erratic voting. Although I might just chalk it up to being new to this sort-of thing. We'll see.

Although I did see Florien thinks Kennifer might be scum. I don't have any reason to suspect her. True, she does a great job blending in when she's scum. She's really good at not coming off as sus. But that said I don't have any reason to suspect her of anything. Yet, anyway. But I can't help but wonder why Florien thinks she may be scum, Unless it's another one of those crazy random Florien accusations. But who can tell?

[TheOtherCG]

Sorry for not posting much. Been busy with a lot of stuff and I still don't have much to say in general.

[LavenderDream]

Ok, so other than Matthew, do we have any leads to act on?
Also, I keep seeing that I voted for Smily, but I voted for Matthew then unvoted.
(I also messaged Florien)

[TenOfSwords13]

Also, I keep seeing that I voted for Smily, but I voted for Matthew then unvoted.

Whoops, missed that, sorry :p

[LavenderDream]

Also, I keep seeing that I voted for Smily, but I voted for Matthew then unvoted.

Whoops, missed that, sorry :p

It's fine, dont worry about it :)

[Whistle]

Matthew, don't worry. It's just me being new and not having much practice. You're okay... I think.

[NebulaChimera2211]

FoS: CG

Matthew: That's not good enough for me. You've basically echoed other people have already said, with minimal (if any) further analysis. You have until around 9 AM BST to make your case.
To soften the blow, I'll be on Florien's case too, especially if you're innocent. Even if you're evil, they're not confirmed good. Some of what they've said has an empty, smarmy feel to it, which I can't decide if it's also roleplay. However, Miller is a suspicious claim to begin with, and though I gave you the benefit of the doubt then, I won't any more.
To conclude, I'm not dismissing the idea that Florien could be evil, even if you are.

CG and Lavender: How odd of you to come waltzing back in here as I mention the quiet ones.

CG: Especially you. Almost your entire contribution to this game has been fillering and a vague claim. You said you got a PM concerning your role, but you don't know whether your role is reflexive or you have pre-determined actions you perform each night. Can you explain what you did, according to the PM?

Lavender: To me, there's:

• artsyGeek (Bus Driver claim who's not given who they switched last night),
  
• Florien (the one encouraging everyone to vote for Matthew most, also seems to trust the aforementioned Bus Driver claim too easily),
  
• CG (as detailed above) and
  
• Despair's Archon of Memes (quiet, but otherwise little evidence, so maybe not quite yet).
  

DAoM'll become a lead if it turns out there's a Janitor (someone who stops people revealing their roles on death). He claims a One-Shot role similar to what I suggested he'd have if he were scum. The thing is, a scum Reviver could also recruit a dead player to the evil team.
Based on codenames, the only person I'd suspect of being a Janitor if they're scum is Matthew.

[Mr. Lee Hammer]

I'm sorry, but I don't really know what else to add. I can see why you'd be skeptical of me making my miller claim because it is sketchy. Fair enough. I said my piece about how Florien is and that's all I got. I'm not the man who has all the answers. At least not right away. Things like this take a bit of time for me. I'm not like Florien who goes in and insists on voting people off immediately because I know that can easily get eyes on you. A very risk vs. reward approach that I personally don't go for, but that's a me thing. That's my best option considering the history of the gameplay styles. I just like to watch people and see how they develop. Toy with some ideas here and there. And if I get an idea, I have to think things through before I say them. In other words, other than Florien, I'm not confident in anyone else right now. So if you want to vote me off because of my claim, go ahead. I'm just saying why take the gamble on something like that? I'm not like Florien who insists that I should be proud to die because like it's been mentioned. No third-parties here, so I've got nothing to gain. But do what you want because I have nothing else to add at the moment

[Whistle]

Alright Matthew, Nebby, et al.

I think you guys might have convinced me partially.

/vote Florien

I heard your role is an actor, so I know you're probably just acting good. Can't take any more chances now, can we? :3

[Florien]

...Wait a minute.

No.

It's obvious isn't it, I've solved the case! Kind of. It's more a guess than anything but... I mean policy elimination can wait until I've tested this. Trust me, it's going to prove something one way or the other. I'm confident in this, I'll elaborate further later though.

/Vote Whistle

[Whistle]

Well well, here we are, a duel.

You recognize what happened last time, right? Miscommunication led to miselimination?

[Florien]

No literally

It's you.

If it isn't you, things make less sense.

[Whistle]

Trust me, I'm Good. I was kind of skeptical, and honestly I was just following bandwagons because I really didn't know who to really trust. Matthew's argument, in all honesty, did help give me a more interested view in you. While my gun's pointed your way, my Finger of Suspicion might very well be pointed toward him and Corporal Compromise, considering that I'm half following your advice.

I don't know who is the most sus, but the clock is ticking and someone has to go. I gotta be the protector—it's why I'm the Punk Godmother.

[Kennifer]

...or the head of the evil team, I mean isn't the Mafia Don usually called the Godfather? and you're the Godmother...

I'm not fully sure whether it's you or Florien or Matthew. 'Though Florien does tend to change votes based on whether people disagree with them more often as town or scum, for what that's worth. (Hell it could be the three of you!)

[Whistle]

Florien turned the gun right on me as soon as I revoted for him, even though I was easily persuaded last time to get to Matthew and Smily as well before finally just unvoting.

I don't even know if I should bother defending myself at this point, but I can promise, pinkie promise, both hands visible, that I am Good.

You know Flor's suspicious of you right? And I don't know why.

[Kennifer]

Yes I know, and I don't know why either other than they say it's "a feeling" which is pretty vague and nebulous. Could be as simple as seeing how I respond to it, could be just throwing shit at the walls to see what sticks. Could be because I didn't agree with everything they say, could be trying to deflect, could be because I didn't jump in with a roleclaim immediately (as I am a pretty passive role and didn't see the need?) I don't even know.

Probably the "throw shit at the walls and see what sticks" thing, or possibly deflection where they're the sus one and just want to try to get as many people other than them on the sus bus as possible. Either way I wouldn't suggest reading into it.

I still think it is Whistle, Florien, or Matthew. Still observing. Promise I'll vote before time's up.

[Mr. Lee Hammer]

Just thought about something to add, seeing as how Nebula wondered about DAoM AKA MP. I will say one thing about MP those based on games he's played in. He does tend to get borderline turbolurky at times, going through periods where he doesn't post. He does that pretty often because he says he doesn't really know what to do. And more often than not, people have successfully framed him, using his inactivity against him, only for him to more often than not turn out innocent. Sorry if this is changing the subject, but it just popped up in my mind and had to throw that out there. Of course he could still be a killer, but it's just some food for thought.

But back to the main point. Florien getting erratic with the voting again and going after Whistle. Like it's been established, more erratic voting. Although if Whistle is indeed truly guilty, I'd like to hear a reason why and not "because it's Whistle, trust me." My vote's still on Florien for right now, but if I hear something really good, then maybe I'll change it.